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Mesaj: <blockquote data-quote="Sadikkara" data-source="post: 88059" data-attributes="member: 1605">I have no business with nationalism, I love my culture thats normal.I think after the 19th min. it will be enough for any musician to evaluate his music abilities. [MEDIA=youtube]nTtWd1_4k7Y[/MEDIA]Problem is that he makes some comments as if its the reality, which misleads. I appriciate you looking for evidence for these. I will explain what I say.It doesnt use the "same note" with 3 records I shared; obviously you are a beginner. This Shur recording is unrelated and against your argument. Yet its makam hüseyni-aşiran regarding its seyir but doesnt include same çeşnis.You say that perde would be the same but since you dont know much about playing I assume its what you heard from others.This is why, "what they say is not what they usually know or understand". So try to keep your knowledge of perde for yourself.Yet where is my medal for finding a proper Hicaz from Iranian music? This small thing is quite important and did they miss it? Its for you to answer.If you insist that these two music cultures was not different for a long while, which is what they defend as owen wrigth and feldman. You need Iranian perde system books and songs from 20th cent. backwards. That is why I told you no repertoire exists and no subject to be compared. This is not about nationalism. This unexisting stuff are the things that Feldman tried to speculate about persian music, using Turkish sources. His own thoughts, commenting on 19th or older centuries' Turkish and persian music. Which from the Turkish side is funny.If you still find his opinions meaningful, I challenge you to answer, what are his sources when comparing 19th or backwards Iran and Turkish music regarding, perde, maqams, repertoire and so on?This is inappropriate regarding science and also orientalist regarding mixing asian cultures by stereotyping not based on an existing source.There was no such interaction after 16th century; the effect of Iranian music is almost vanished from repertoire. We have hunderds of hand written mecmuas, showing only minimal amount. I did not read a number but it must be way under 1-2%. As a result, 50-60 persian pieces reached to today I guess.I have great respect for their music, I dont try to downsize these two in one; thats the orientalism O. Wright and Feldman does. There is no old repertoire in Iran. Its scientifically most appropriate thing than guessing a perde for 1000s of pieces of Hicaz repertoire and comparing it with todays setar videos or with old records, yet incorrect, anachronistic examples. You may use a sound mapping alghorithm and see it for yourself for the videos I shared.If I would be nationalist, why would I show you more similarities in btw Iran and us from the past? You are clearly stuck with what you learned from the books and not ready for studying these music genres.The other issue about Chrisantos is nothing new I believe, same with older calculations for perde tayini, its a music system definition not perde tutorial. If so where are the rest of perdes we need for all maqams of that day?There is no other fretted instrument for classical music rather than Tanbur. Kanun, Ney, Oud etc.. was fretless. So segah are much more likely to be always considered to be an area of 3-4 perdes. Tanbur was on the minority side with it needing movable frets and so on.One hard evidence for perdes being different than writing would be Hamparsum hand written notesheets, he wrote many pieces with half tone/chromatic qualities as well as Turkish perdes before Chrisantos and after Nasır Dede.For example, Nasır Dedes explanation of Hüzzam which he says, its the "old Hicaz" that is used on Neva. Considering what he means is sharper Mib and flatter Fa# we may say that in his life time Hicaz itself was already different, which is likely to be similar with today.On the other hand what hamparsum used for Hüzzams' Dik Hisar is just Re#. So did Hüzzam changed twice in 40 year period? I dont think so. Its the writing method problems.</blockquote>

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